anyone care to answer a question or two?

[Jokersvirus]

I am being forced to do a presentation in social deviance regarding the right of students to carry firearms on campus. This is not a debate, this is not an argument thread this is to help me get the view point of people and what they think so I can add it to my report and or give the relative information to my partners. Im doing con, one is doing pro and the other is doing questions.

So if you do wish to help me I thank you and would like for you to answer these questions:

1) Should they be allowed to carry yes,no and why?
2) If they are allowed to carry should there any type of testing to determine they are qualified enough to carry on campus? Yes, no and why
3) IN your opinion what do you think some of the downfalls of allowing kids to carry and not to carry are?


All information will be used in one manner or another. AGAIN, this is not a debate or argument thread this is just a information gathering thread.

[EpsilonX]

...what are students carrying?

[Jokersvirus]

Umm... firearms of course...

[EpsilonX]

well it just said carry. Maybe it meant carry each other to class? Carry drugs? Carry a valid id?

1) Should they be allowed to carry yes,no and why?
I'd say no, there's no real reason for anybody to need to be carrying a firearm around campus. If they were allowed, somebody could easily take their pistol into the library and shoot the place up.

2) If they are allowed to carry should there any type of testing to determine they are qualified enough to carry on campus? Yes, no and why
I guess if they had a concealed weapon permit...

3) IN your opinion what do you think some of the downfalls of allowing kids to carry and not to carry are?
like i said in question one, there's no real need to and i wouldn't feel safe if i was walkin to class and some kid had some gun on him.

[Jayhmmz]

well it just said carry. Maybe it meant carry each other to class? Carry drugs? Carry a valid id?

I don't know if he has edited it since, but it does say 'carry firearms' at the beginning :P

1) Should they be allowed to carry yes,no and why?

No they shouldn't, because if that person carrying the firearm has an anger problem, and someone causes said person to get angry, things could easily turn sour, and the firearm could be drawn as a threat.. and it may lead to a fatal outcome.

2) If they are allowed to carry should there any type of testing to determine they are qualified enough to carry on campus? Yes, no and why.

I think that would be pretty pointless, not meaning to sound so negative and dismissive. It would be hard to test them, because at the end of the day, no matter how responsible they are, if someone pisses them off, and they get into a fight on a bad day, then there are consequences.

3) IN your opinion what do you think some of the downfalls of allowing kids to carry and not to carry are?

I can't really see any downfalls in not allowing the kids to have firearms really.. The only downfall I can think of, is that if they have to walk home to/through a dodgy area, on their way back from school, then them not having a firearm means that they wouldn't be able to effectively protect themselves from potential rapists/paedophiles/kidnappers, etc..

The downfall in letting the kids carry firearms on campus, is the aforementioned problems; I have none to add.

[EpsilonX]

1. yea, he edited it after I made the post.

2. i agree with what everything he said. There is no real value or upside to letting people carry firearms around campus aside from being protected against a thug, but if everybody has a gun a thug would probably have more means to attack somebody, so...no.

[Muffincat]

1) Should they be allowed to carry yes,no and why?

Absolutely not - there should be no reason for a student to carry a firearm, ever. If it's that bad of a school, have police officers or guards or something, but NEVER students.

2) If they are allowed to carry should there any type of testing to determine they are qualified enough to carry on campus? Yes, no and why

If they were allowed to carry, they better have an extremely good testing program, and they'd have to have a license and everything.

3) IN your opinion what do you think some of the downfalls of allowing kids to carry and not to carry are?

I have no idea what the pros of letting students have guns on campus would be at all o_o Jayhmmz's answer is the only real "downfall" I guess, but there are better ways around that than letting kids carry guns on campus o.o By allowing kids to carry guns, you could be facing serious liability issues for the school, for one thing. And, you know, murder.

You're lucky you're doing the cons, because wtf are the pro arguments? XD (but seriously, I'm curious - what do people say for this? I feel like any argument could be easily countered o.o)

[Jokersvirus]

You're right any argument can be easily counter and the pro argument is pretty much
I have a right to carry its my second amendment right, If im allowed to carry I can protect those around me, if I could have carried I would have been able to stop the shootsing at Virginia Tech and other places.

that is the most common answers I have found

[LiNuX]

1) Should they be allowed to carry yes,no and why?


Of course not. Allowing that will result in far more killings in school. Someone who failed a test is having a bad day and is ready to blow = bad situation.





2) If they are allowed to carry should there any type of testing to determine they are qualified enough to carry on campus? Yes, no and why


Previous answer was no. No test out there can determine if a student is "qualified" - I'm pretty sure that even plenty of cops aren't even qualified to carry.




3) IN your opinion what do you think some of the downfalls of allowing kids to carry and not to carry are?


I also don't see any pros in allowing kids to carry guns. Maybe it'll result in higher graduation rates cuz the professors will be scared half to death of failing anyone.

Cons are basically everything bad you can think of. Murder rate going up. Teachers afraid of Students (unless they're allowed to carry SMGs).

[Jokersvirus]

I do have another question.
If guns were allowed on campus doing an active shooter threat would that hinder or help law enforcement response in your opinion?

[LiNuX]

It would make it worse (assuming you meant 'during' instead of 'doing') because every other kid would have a gun, how would the cops determine who shot first without having to go through all the forensics of it. Cops wouldn't be able to focus properly knowing anyone could shoot them in the back.

[Jayhmmz]

It would make it worse (assuming you meant 'during' instead of 'doing') because every other kid would have a gun, how would the cops determine who shot first without having to go through all the forensics of it. Cops wouldn't be able to focus properly knowing anyone could shoot them in the back.

This.

It would be like joining a Deathmatch server on CoD.

[Jokersvirus]

Thanks for catching my bad grammar there linux :P

If you guys are interested because you have shared your thoughts and feelings I thought I would share mine. You dont have to read if you dont want to just click the spoiler if your interested.
Again this isnt an argument or debate thread just opinion.
1) No, because allowing people to have guns on campus can lead to several things, people pulling out guns just like an idiot and actting stupid can lead to someone getting shot, someone can have a bad day and open fire, someone could be drinking and pulls their weapon, someone could have their weapon stolen and the school would have to explain that in light of defending others someone was killed to uphold because people believed that their second amendment rights are important. Active shooter wise if someone walks into a building and opens fire law enforcement might shoot someone because everyone has a weapon and they dont know who the shooter is. So you are taking a bad situation and making 10x worse. I do believe in the right to bear arms I love my second amendment rights however college students arent safe enough. You can have all the training in the world but at the end of the day if you have a bad day your training isn't going to prevent you from going on a killing spree, and since weapons would be allowed on campus it just makes it that much easier to execute such attack.
2) If laws were passed and they were allowed to, they would have to go through the local police department qualify over and over and over have extremely psychological testing done to make sure there isnt even a hint of bad thoughts, their criminal record must be clean, any marks on their record they are disqualified. However even if they are the best of the best to carry a bad day wont prevent them from opening fire.
3) Downfall of them carrying, people wont come to class, I dont know joe blow next to me how do i know he wont open fire? How do I know in a situation he will hit the target and not someone who is innocent? You are putting alot of trust into people who we dont know and we dont know what they are capable of doing. They can go to the range and say they fired over 15,000 rounds but shooting paper and shooting in real life TWO DIFFERENT CONCEPTS. I dont feel comfortable putting my life in the hands of someone who I dont know can handle the situation.

HOwever, I do believe fully that any professors who were former law enforcement should be allowed to carry because theyve been in those situations they have the training they have the knowledge. They know what to do and they know they will do it.

[LiNuX]

Good stuff. But I disagree with the last statement about allowing professors (former law enforcement or not) to carry weapons. It's just another liability. Kids aren't the only ones that can lose their temper. Professors can go crazy too if students push him/her too hard.

Also, that's just another gun that can be stolen by a smartass. Professors should be focused on teaching, and not focused on their gun. And a gun can also be intimidating, you might find students who would normally speak up and bring interesting opinions to the table to just shut down and not talk because they're afraid the professor might get "angry" - that's a big psychological effect you don't want anyone (professor or student) to have.

[Jokersvirus]

sound reasoning linux

[Saph]

1) Should they be allowed to carry yes,no and why?
2) If they are allowed to carry should there any type of testing to determine they are qualified enough to carry on campus? Yes, no and why
3) IN your opinion what do you think some of the downfalls of allowing kids to carry and not to carry are?

1) Maybe. It should vary depending on the person, and on where they are. Say for example a dangerous neighborhood? Maybe it would be smarter there. At the same time it would increase the chances for gang activity to spread on campus, as well as school shootings if some dude goes postal. I would have to say no, since no where else in the world has it been necessary to carry a gun to school. And due to the fact that guns are so easily obtainable in the US, there is a very solid reason why most school shootings in the entire world happens in the 1 country that allows guns to be distributed to such a degree...United States of America.

Pros to not allowing guns in school:
- Guns will not have a chance to become trendy(like clothes for example, one gun is cooler than the other)
- The risk of school shootings lowers tremendously
- The risk of accidental discharge is lowered tremendously.
- The risk of school located gang activity lowers
- The risk of guns being stolen for criminal purposes lowers
- Safety overall is increased by ALOT

Cons:
- On the rare occasion of getting mugged, you have no firearm to defend yourself.
- Upon an actual school shooting, only the shooter is armed, if guns were allowed, each student would be armed, lowering the chance of school shootings being successful in any way.

The risks of guns being allowed are too great in my opinion, ergo, my answer is still no.

2) IF for some odd and rediculously stupid reason that they SHOULD be armed? Atleast a test to find out if they're fitting to own a gun be set in motion. Why? Well its quite simple, if not they might decide that its more fun to shoot the gun than just have it on their bodies, and a school shooting is born. The chances are not large, but it is still great enough for concern. Since the test would atleast lower the chance of accidental discharge, school shootings, and increase the safety of gun use all around. Guns, should still.not.be.allowed.in.school.
Its an educational facility, damnit, its not a firing range!!!


3) See #1 for this one.


So no, guns should not be allowed on schools, cause the risks out weigh the pros be a huge margin!!!

[paecmaker]

I do have another question.
If guns were allowed on campus doing an active shooter threat would that hinder or help law enforcement response in your opinion?

I dont think it would be too good. Its not that good with every student running around and trying to be a hero.

On the other side if you are stuck and the only way to survive is to shoot the shooter and you can carry weapons you might survive.

I guess there is no real true answer, its all about opinions but I would say that I think the police would prefere that the students had no weapons.

[EpsilonX]

I do have another question.
If guns were allowed on campus doing an active shooter threat would that hinder or help law enforcement response in your opinion?

I don't think so. Students would try to be the hero, or maybe get in law enforcement's way, and that just would lead to bad things. Keep students out of the way and let the trained professionals take care of the situation