What do you think of Console war?

[Mordry]

Personally, I'm sick of it. Everytime there are news for a game console, the haters are coming and talking bull****.

I want to hear your opinion about the Console War.

My opinion is just:
As a Nintendo Fan, it's my "Call of Duty" (lol) to defend the Wii, the 3DS and the Wii U. But as a good Fan, I'm trying not to provocate the other consoles so much. Sometimes there are just people, who can't accept any other consoles and then, there are lieing and make clear, they never tested the console. I took a look to all of them and know how to discuss with haters (after a lot of discussions). Anyway I'm sick of the hater/console wars. We are all gamers, right? Why can't we just accept each other and shut the people without any clue of other gaming system up and ban them to the terror of the Real-Life.

[Jayhmmz]

haven't we already got like 1,000 threads with this topic incorporated into them? :P

[Mordry]

haven't we already got like 1,000 threads with this topic incorporated into them? :P

Possibly... I just did make a Thread without searching for other topics ;).

[ablaye]

To each its own. I like all consoles, and I played them all. I am a little bias for the Xbox 360, but you won't find me trashing the PS3 or Wii.
I do enjoy playing the Wii with my nephews.

[foof]

Each console has its own upsides and downsides. frontsides and backsides, leftsides and rightsides, SpaceTimesides and 10 dimensional sides.

People like different things. People like different controllers, games, etc etc.

[ROFLBRYCE]

Each console has its own upsides and downsides. frontsides and backsides, leftsides and rightsides, SpaceTimesides and 10 dimensional sides.

People like different things. People like different controllers, games, etc etc.
This.


I prefer the 360 for online multiplayer, the PS3 for watching movies/listening to music, and I'd like to say I like the Wii. I enjoy playing it when I do play it, but I hardly ever pick it up. Last time I did was to play a Gamecube game. I enjoy some of the games it does have though.

Handhelds aren't a major thing for me. I have my DS for Pokemon, and don't really play PSP. It has sweet games I'd like to try though.

[EpsilonX]

If somebody is like omg this is so much better than that, I always point out the facts that some people may prefer certain aspects over other ones. PS3 has strong points that 360 doesn't, 360 has strong points that ps3 doesnt

[Bertrum]

Unfortunately I didn't notice a suitable poll option. Though my out look is simply that I couldn't give a flying ****! If you have an xbox great, a wii super, a ps3 wonderful, Idgaf! :D

[Synge]

Unfortunately I didn't notice a suitable poll option. Though my out look is simply that I couldn't give a flying ****! If you have an xbox great, a wii super, a ps3 wonderful, Idgaf! :D

Same, but I just chose 'I'm sick of it' due to lack of an 'I don't give a ****' option. Some people spend as much time arguing about which console is better as they do actually playing said console, which is hilarious.

[Psychotray]

The console war is stupid, and should really stop......Any consoles are good, I like both Xbox and Ps3, I don't know why people are making such a big deal about this issue, everyone has their likes and dislikes in the gaming industry, but there's no need to start a war about it....

[Bertrum]

Agreed, people just need to concentrate on there own consoles rather than slating others. I bet 9/10 xbox users that hate ps3's have never owned one, and vice versa.

[Slay]

I own a PS3.
And I hate it, not trying to start a fight >HERE< but, yes.
I mean, I wouldn't fight about it, if someone didn't reply to it saying "It's all the same"
I reply mad with a reason why it is not, I am a diehard 360 fan, and I don't care about PS3, this is an oppinion, if you ask me, it is YOU people who are "sick" of it who start the fights!

[BlackEyedJester]

Yeah I've at some point owned both if not all consoles, and I can say I prefer the PS3, the controller fits nicely in my hand and the XMB screen is nicely formed, well that's my opinion anyway ;)

[Bertrum]

I started of on a Xbox, as they were released earlier than the PS3's as far as I can remember, then when the PS3's were released I got one of them (as I worked for Sony at the time I got a nice discount :P), same with the Wii, I got one of those when they were released.. Out of all of them, my personal favourite is the 360, only because I prefer the dashboard, achievements and control pads. I prefer that Playstation Online is free, and I also like the design of the PS3 better. So with me, they have pro's and con's, the reason I still have both, GT5, and other console exclusive games..

I didn't care for the Wii much, the novelty wore off quick, I didn't enjoy playing it alone that much, no where near as much as I enjoyed playing Fifa online on the xbox/ps3.. Though when I had a lot of friends around the Wii was great, it really is a good console for parties...

So all in all, I like them all really, I prefer certain consoles for certain things, that's why I said earlier I couldn't give a **** about the console war :)

[Psychotray]

Both are as good as each other anyway, they both have flaws, but that's what makes them both....Very unique consoles.

[Bertrum]

Both are as good as each other anyway, they both have flaws, but that's what makes them both....Very unique consoles.

Precisely!

[NumberedEyes]

i think the real console war ended when sega died, you dont see anything even remotly as agressive anymore , we are living in the happy days of co existance right now. its sad to think about so many people missing out on sega and nintendos little battle then sony walking in and putting them both in there place. great times.

anyways enjoyable poll i just dont think of todays generation when console wars is mentioned :)

[mutilations]

To be a true gamer, one has to enjoy all aspects of gaming, which includes different console brands. Sure, each system has their flaws but they all make up for it in different areas. There's no reason to be a hater and a gamer at the same time.

[paecmaker]

I dont really like wii but thats because I dont feel personally dragged to most games there. Its not that Wii got bad games, they got fantastic games if you like that kind of genres.

About the "war" between ps3 and xbox 360 its just plain stupid. I have a 360 and I like it. It got games I like and when I bought it a few years ago I thought that there was games I would like for ps3. Now there are many games that I would want to play on ps3 and I could even buy a ps3 but now I feel that its to close to the next generation.

This console war most people are talking about is just stupid. All consoles are good at what they are doing and every console also got a disadvantage, even if it is RROD, lacking graphics or something else they all got something that makes that console good.

[Triton]

Personally I like all consoles, I have a PS3 and a Wii, the only reason I don't have an XBox is because I would be insane to buy a third, after ayou can only on one at a time.

[BloNDeWoLF6]

I like the discussion of console wars. I remember when I thoroughly hated anything Sega, for no reason, as a child. Looking back, it was my uninformed opinion, that kept me from ever truely giving Sega a chance. Looking back now, I wish I would have been a Sega Slayer.

I feel that much of the people, like myself, that gravitated to Nintendo during this time did so only out of loyalty. Wouldn't it be great if Sega's sports division could get one year of EA sells? Imagine what kinda 2K sports they'd give us then.

[Trunks]

I like to argue about my favorite console, which is the xbox 360. Though I do have a ps3, just for those curtain exclusive games. I'll always be a 360 fanboy though.

[Zelda]

I'm really just sick of them. It's like, come on, can't we all just like what we like and shut up about which is "better" then the other. They all have their pros and cons and everyone has preferences. *shrug* No reason to argue!

[Mizel]

I agree, the console wars are just petty and worn out. Every system has it's flaws just every system has it's positive sides- just like every person has their own personal preferance as to which they prefer. Why people feel the need to argue over them is beyond me. Debating- I get that and also enjoy it. But debating is on a whole different level then stubbornly deaming one single console superior to all others, no matter what.

What I do find interesting about the console wars is the pure Sociology beind it, I love it. The aspects of it are so indictive of human nature itself. I mean the fact that we as humans, are so predictable in our actions and attitudes towards others and objects, it amazes me. Just like real life, gaming has it cliques (for example 360, PC, Ps3, Wii). Each of these groups have their particular thoughts and stereotypes of the other (360 group thinks PCers aren't 'true' gamers while Ps3ers think 360ers are just a bunch of immature cursing kids only interested in FPS's while PCers think Wiiers are old people with kids, and so on and so on). They also each have their sense of pride and need to prove their loyalty to their console of choice. So despite perhaps wanting a Ps3, a 360er will deny those urges because others in that clique wouldnt approve (like a jock wanting to date a goth for example). And, just like in real life, we all have our opinions and dislike hearing facts/opinions from others that may sway them and change our minds because we've been defending our own opinon for so long which in turn leads us to.... The Great Console War! dun dun dunnnnnnn.....

I apologize if my post was out of context, I tend to take everything and somehow associate it back to Psychology/Sociology. >.> But it seemed relevant to me. However, dont get me wrong! Before anyone nerdrages, or takes this the wrong way, Im in no way saying that this is exactly how it is and how everyone feels. lol Im just generalizing for the sake of making a comparison.

[Zelda]

I apologize if my post was out of context, I tend to take everything and somehow associate it back to Psychology/Sociology. >.> But it seemed relevant to me.

Have I mentioned that I love you? ;) I do that all the time! I imagine it gets on my friends' nerves, haha! But it was relevant. And I agree with pretty much everything you said. Especially about how people defend things simply for the sake of defending them because they always have. Or because they're afraid they might -gasp- become open minded and actually LIKE that which they claim to hate.


I myself have no real preference. I like PC, the Wii and I like the PS3. I haven't found any games that are solely for 360 that I like, so I just don't own an xbox. But not because I WON'T PLAY XBOX, simply because I don't like their games. *shrug* I am a die-hard Nintendo fan so I can get a little upset when people (who won't even give Nintendo a chance) bash it but I don't argue about it. That's your opinion, you can have it. I have mine. It's not a battle!! Anywho, sorry for soap-boxing. ::-)

[Trunks]

I agree, the console wars are just petty and worn out. Every system has it's flaws just every system has it's positive sides- just like every person has their own personal preferance as to which they prefer. Why people feel the need to argue over them is beyond me. Debating- I get that and also enjoy it. But debating is on a whole different level then stubbornly deaming one single console superior to all others, no matter what.

What I do find interesting about the console wars is the pure Sociology beind it, I love it. The aspects of it are so indictive of human nature itself. I mean the fact that we as humans, are so predictable in our actions and attitudes towards others and objects, it amazes me. Just like real life, gaming has it cliques (for example 360, PC, Ps3, Wii). Each of these groups have their particular thoughts and stereotypes of the other (360 group thinks PCers aren't 'true' gamers while Ps3ers think 360ers are just a bunch of immature cursing kids only interested in FPS's while PCers think Wiiers are old people with kids, and so on and so on). They also each have their sense of pride and need to prove their loyalty to their console of choice. So despite perhaps wanting a Ps3, a 360er will deny those urges because others in that clique wouldnt approve (like a jock wanting to date a goth for example). And, just like in real life, we all have our opinions and dislike hearing facts/opinions from others that may sway them and change our minds because we've been defending our own opinon for so long which in turn leads us to.... The Great Console War! dun dun dunnnnnnn.....

I apologize if my post was out of context, I tend to take everything and somehow associate it back to Psychology/Sociology. >.> But it seemed relevant to me. However, dont get me wrong! Before anyone nerdrages, or takes this the wrong way, Im in no way saying that this is exactly how it is and how everyone feels. lol Im just generalizing for the sake of making a comparison.

I haven't seen much going on with the console wars lately, I'm sure it'll be back up for the next generation. I'm just a competitive person by nature, a lot of gamers are that way as well. This is the main reason we get these console wars. Even though I stick up for a curtain console, I still normally get both for the exclusive games, but that'll be the only games I buy for it. For most of the reason it's because most of my friends all have a 360, so that's what I am kinda forced to get. Friends are what make the games and systems what they are. PS3 and 360 are basically identical on how the games are played, not the features for each console.

I agree that there is no dominate system that is better at everything, but I still enjoy debating which console has more advantages then the other, or which one is just a better buy.

As for the stereotypes, they get the name for a reason. Plus putting things into groups is how the brain works. 360 is my favorite, and it does seem like there are a lot more annoying little kids then there is on the ps3. Though I disagree with the PC stereotype, I play FPS both on pc and 360, and it is save to say PC gaming is more competitive and have a lot better players. Though this could be just because there are dedicated servers, It's hard to tell really.

Anyway, my point is that everyone organizes things in there head. From what I learned from taking sociology, not sure if it's true, but the majority of people use grouping for memorization. So our brain is already hardwired to place things or even people into groups or labels.

Also, not attacking you personally or anything. Just your post had roughly the same things I was going to talk about and I was just simply comparing thoughts.

[Mizel]

Have I mentioned that I love you? ;) I do that all the time! I imagine it gets on my friends' nerves, haha! But it was relevant. And I agree with pretty much everything you said. Especially about how people defend things simply for the sake of defending them because they always have. Or because they're afraid they might -gasp- become open minded and actually LIKE that which they claim to hate.


I myself have no real preference. I like PC, the Wii and I like the PS3. I haven't found any games that are solely for 360 that I like, so I just don't own an xbox. But not because I WON'T PLAY XBOX, simply because I don't like their games. *shrug* I am a die-hard Nintendo fan so I can get a little upset when people (who won't even give Nintendo a chance) bash it but I don't argue about it. That's your opinion, you can have it. I have mine. It's not a battle!! Anywho, sorry for soap-boxing. ::-)

*blushes* Lol :P Well I'm glad Im not the only one that does that! You're totally right as well- fear to becoming open minded is def a factor. Although, something I dont thoroughly understand. I can't imagine living that way O.o Closed mindedness is my by far my biggest pet peeves, it only leads to conflict.

I don't own an Xbox for the exact same reason. Im not against it, but in having a Ps3 (AND being broke) I don't find it necessary. Well, didn't find it necessary until the special edition SW one came out :O And I was once a die-hard Nintendo fan as well.... it makes me sad to say not as much nowadays. I've been progressively more and more disappointed in their games and such and then the WiiU announcement just made things worse. Oh well, all good things come to an end eventually right? :(


I haven't seen much going on with the console wars lately, I'm sure it'll be back up for the next generation. I'm just a competitive person by nature, a lot of gamers are that way as well. This is the main reason we get these console wars. Even though I stick up for a curtain console, I still normally get both for the exclusive games, but that'll be the only games I buy for it. For most of the reason it's because most of my friends all have a 360, so that's what I am kinda forced to get. Friends are what make the games and systems what they are. PS3 and 360 are basically identical on how the games are played, not the features for each console.

I agree that there is no dominate system that is better at everything, but I still enjoy debating which console has more advantages then the other, or which one is just a better buy.

As for the stereotypes, they get the name for a reason. Plus putting things into groups is how the brain works. 360 is my favorite, and it does seem like there are a lot more annoying little kids then there is on the ps3. Though I disagree with the PC stereotype, I play FPS both on pc and 360, and it is save to say PC gaming is more competitive and have a lot better players. Though this could be just because there are dedicated servers, It's hard to tell really.

Anyway, my point is that everyone organizes things in there head. From what I learned from taking sociology, not sure if it's true, but the majority of people use grouping for memorization. So our brain is already hardwired to place things or even people into groups or labels.

Also, not attacking you personally or anything. Just your post had roughly the same things I was going to talk about and I was just simply comparing thoughts.

I agree, I like the debate as well. And no need to justify yourself, I didn't think you were attacking me! Even if you had disagreed with and put down everything I said, I still wouldnt think you were. Arguing points is what debating is all about :) What makes it even better is when people can have an intelligent and serious debate without feeling the need to completely bash the other persons opinions. It's honestly refreshing, and doesn't happen often.

And yes, while not *always* true stereotrypes are most definitely there for a reason. Although, my little PC/Wii/Ps3/360 stereotype examples were just that, examples, and aren't necessarily how I feel personally..... except for the obnoxious kids on 360 part xD

Oh, our brains are definitely hard wired that way lol And thank god our brains have a method for organization because I have the friggin memory of a goldfish and otherwise wouldn't remember a thing. ^_^

[Zelda]

I don't own an Xbox for the exact same reason. Im not against it, but in having a Ps3 (AND being broke) I don't find it necessary. Well, didn't find it necessary until the special edition SW one came out :O And I was once a die-hard Nintendo fan as well.... it makes me sad to say not as much nowadays. I've been progressively more and more disappointed in their games and such and then the WiiU announcement just made things worse. Oh well, all good things come to an end eventually right? :(

Yeah. Having to pay to be a part of xbox's network or whatever which is free on Playstation really turned me off. :(

Well, I don't know about that, at first I was disappointed in the WiiU announcement as well... but the more I hear about it, I think Nintendo may surprise us. So we shall see in time. :)

What gets me is that Nintendo almost always comes up with the ideas first... yet people still feel it necessary to bash them for their "unoriginality". haha To me it's like, wait, what?? Who was the first Console of the "Big Three"? Nintendo. Who had motion sensing first? Nintendo. Who's been around the longest and survived while others collapsed? Nintendo. Who had (even if it did flop hahah) and again is the first to have a 3D system? Nintendo.... So y'know... *shrug* But like I said, just my opinion. ;)

Someone politely correct me if I'm wrong about any of that, btw. I think I'm right, but I might not be. haha

[Trunks]

Yeah. Having to pay to be a part of xbox's network or whatever which is free on Playstation really turned me off. :(

Well, I don't know about that, at first I was disappointed in the WiiU announcement as well... but the more I hear about it, I think Nintendo may surprise us. So we shall see in time. :)

What gets me is that Nintendo almost always comes up with the ideas first... yet people still feel it necessary to bash them for their "unoriginality". haha To me it's like, wait, what?? Who was the first Console of the "Big Three"? Nintendo. Who had motion sensing first? Nintendo. Who's been around the longest and survived while others collapsed? Nintendo. Who had (even if it did flop hahah) and again is the first to have a 3D system? Nintendo.... So y'know... *shrug* But like I said, just my opinion. ;)

Someone politely correct me if I'm wrong about any of that, btw. I think I'm right, but I might not be. haha

Nintendo definitely isn't scared to try to things that's for sure,but you could argue that Atari 2600 had a motion sensor controller as well, don't remember the name of it though. The power glove was also motion sensor, but that developed by nintendo. You could also say that the virtual boy was the first 3d system. That's just digging in the dirt though, so those don't really count in my opinon. The technology really wasn't there yet.

Though the eye toy for the playstation 2 was motion sensor. So I believe that is the first legit motion sensor for consoles.

[Sotanji]

What I do find interesting about the console wars is the pure Sociology beind it, I love it. The aspects of it are so indictive of human nature itself. I mean the fact that we as humans, are so predictable in our actions and attitudes towards others and objects, it amazes me. Just like real life, gaming has it cliques (for example 360, PC, Ps3, Wii). Each of these groups have their particular thoughts and stereotypes of the other (360 group thinks PCers aren't 'true' gamers while Ps3ers think 360ers are just a bunch of immature cursing kids only interested in FPS's while PCers think Wiiers are old people with kids, and so on and so on). They also each have their sense of pride and need to prove their loyalty to their console of choice. So despite perhaps wanting a Ps3, a 360er will deny those urges because others in that clique wouldnt approve (like a jock wanting to date a goth for example). And, just like in real life, we all have our opinions and dislike hearing facts/opinions from others that may sway them and change our minds because we've been defending our own opinon for so long which in turn leads us to.... The Great Console War! dun dun dunnnnnnn.....

I agree really. i mean Xbox players have "reason's" as to why its "better" ps3 players have "reasons" why its better "better, PC has the same thing. And then there are wii players, to be very honest i don't really hear from them to much. And most of the points they bring up cosidering to be "fact" are solely opinion. i guess Im that innocent bystander just sitting there playing the games instead of wasting my time whining about them.


I myself have no real preference. I like PC, the Wii and I like the PS3. I haven't found any games that are solely for 360 that I like, so I just don't own an xbox. But not because I WON'T PLAY XBOX, simply because I don't like their games. *shrug* I am a die-hard Nintendo fan so I can get a little upset when people (who won't even give Nintendo a chance) bash it but I don't argue about it. That's your opinion, you can have it. I have mine. It's not a battle!! Anywho, sorry for soap-boxing.


I agree, i don't have preference either i own a wii and ps3 though. I don't mind playing whatever game you offer. If you say "hey do you want to play -Insert game here that is not a sports game XD-". i Will say yes regardless as to what console/platform/arcade system etc. I mean i'm a Gamer for Christs sake! GIMME MAH GAMES!

But i will say I'm partial to Ps3 only because i personally like SONY as a company, and i like the products they disperse. That being said im not going to say " HEY YOU, XBOX IS WEAKSUACE!" or anything of the like. if someone says hey lets play halo reach! my reaction will be as follows http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXasCjUTNpE. I'M A GAMER, I LOVE GAMES AWWW YEAHH!

[Mizel]

Yeah. Having to pay to be a part of xbox's network or whatever which is free on Playstation really turned me off. :(

Well, I don't know about that, at first I was disappointed in the WiiU announcement as well... but the more I hear about it, I think Nintendo may surprise us. So we shall see in time. :)

What gets me is that Nintendo almost always comes up with the ideas first... yet people still feel it necessary to bash them for their "unoriginality". haha To me it's like, wait, what?? Who was the first Console of the "Big Three"? Nintendo. Who had motion sensing first? Nintendo. Who's been around the longest and survived while others collapsed? Nintendo. Who had (even if it did flop hahah) and again is the first to have a 3D system? Nintendo.... So y'know... *shrug* But like I said, just my opinion. ;)

Someone politely correct me if I'm wrong about any of that, btw. I think I'm right, but I might not be. haha

Yea screw paying. :P

The only reason Im disappointed SO far, is because it seems like the system is a cop-out. I mean, it's basically a Wii with controllers that have mini screens. Like really? First of all I dont need my controller to have a screen.... it's gonna be in my hands, I cant watch it -and- the screen. And second, the system only comes with ONE controller.... which wouldnt be so bad if they weren't over $200 for additional ones -__- I think it's just a load of BS. The Wii controllers work on the WiiU.... but whats the point of getting a WiiU then? Just use the Wii lol Im not totally for/against it yet. Ill def give it a chance and at least check it out when its released. Just so far Im kinda of disappointed :/

Honestly, I've never heard anyone bash Nintendo for unoriginality. But yea, that's def soemthing that's far from the truth. However, they def weren't the first with motion sensing games.... as for 3D though, I think that's correct.


i guess Im that innocent bystander just sitting there playing the games instead of wasting my time whining about them.
!

Lol Exactly :P

[ChineeseGuy]

I'm really sick of it.

[apatheticarchetype]

Trying to compare consoles is just extremely redundant. Anyone who knows anything about games knows that you can't say one console is better over another because they're each suited well to their own particular audience. I have owned mostly nintendo consoles for as long as I can remember, and they suited me just fine until I recently bought my PS3. I can't bash my Wii because it puts out some great titles - Zelda for instance. People who feel the need to trash different consoles are probably people who have a very narrow view of what they like. I don't care either way, it's just a pointless argument because we like what we like.

[BobTD]

Considering the PC and mac are both entertainment centric platforms that have exclusive video game titles, this clearly qualifies them as consoles. The only reason you dont include them is because those other systems you named cant hold a candle to the PC. Simply including a gaming PC in the conversation would resolve the issue.

[paecmaker]

Considering the PC and mac are both entertainment centric platforms that have exclusive video game titles, this clearly qualifies them as consoles. The only reason you dont include them is because those other systems you named cant hold a candle to the PC. Simply including a gaming PC in the conversation would resolve the issue.

Im all for this, sadly less and less games are being unique for the pc, look at Bf3. They said that it would concentrate on pc(aka pc being the lead platform) however mid dev they switched to console instead.

The graphics are great however the game has been more adapted for consoles.

[betodeth]

Ps3 y xbox360 the best

[darkblader227]

i don't know why there are so many fan boys arguing oh the Ps3 is better cause this and that **** no the Xbox360 is better cause it kills the Ps3 i've had all the consoles that are we all sony and MicroSoft related product's, i've had a Ps3 (still do) Xbox360, Wii(still have as well), PS Vita, 3Ds, Dsi regular and dsi exl and PSP 1000, 2000, 300, and the GO, an original PS1, second version of the PS1,then a Fat PS2 after that the slim grey Ps2 and a fat PS3 and a White Xbox 360 i've had all sony and micro soft related consoles i never said that any of them was better than each other when the PS3 came out and the Xbox360 first came out who stared the Fanboy **** people who bought them that's who when i saw people starting to buy the PS3 and Xbox i knew there was gonna be major fanboy's every were on youtube and on any other site to admit why can't you just argue and get over with it when it is 2018 do you think fanboy's will still exist or will they be gone by then with all are new tec that we have now the Fan boy crap is a 2006 or 07, 08, 09 think get over it you can't change the ps3 even if you tried you would fail cause you are not the owner of Microsoft of Sony jeez talking about this crap is already boring you see people who play video games for a living and they don't argue about this stuff lighten up for once damn i just sick to hear of all these little Fan boy's Raging on about oh the PS3 will knock the **** out of the Xbox350 or the Xbox360 will do this and that to the PS3 i don't care jeez no offense but people who are fan boy's please you look like a child whining about how he wanted the other toy toy and the toy he had suck and it broke

[Mizel]

Lulz Ps3 plays BluRays, is designed for 1080p, doesn't have the RRoD *and* I don't have to pay monthly to play games. Score :D