Questions about Bioshocking end (Spoliers)

[Ghost]

I realize theres been a thread about this but it hasnt answered my questions
Whats the point of Ryan letting Fountaine control you so you kill him? I was puzzled. Are you Ryans son? Whats this talk about Fountaine putting you in a submarine when you were 2? And you dont have a real family? And whats with the ghosts? Are the big daddies human or...How come at that one part u see Atlas running to the submarine tryin to get his family out..whats the point of that if its all a lie? Why does he pretend to be Atlas? Why doesnt Fountaine just kill Ryan? Lots of questions lol

[Scott]

Yes, you're Ryan's son. No, he didn't "allow" it, it was done behind his back. (It' explained in one of the audio diaries; one of his mistresses got pregnant to sell the baby to Fontaine.)

The reason Fontaine needs you is that Ryan locked the bathyspheres to his own genetic key. Only he, or his children, can use bathyspheres. Sander Cohen is the one exception.

You were sent to the surface with implanted memories and mind control triggers to grow up "normally". You were "instructed" to take a certain flight at a certain time and then sabotage the plane so it crashes where the bathysphere is.

Seeing ghosts is a side affect of plasmids.

Fontaine pretends to be Atlas because he knows that as you go through Rapture, you'll find out that Fontaine is a crook and not to be trusted.

Fontaine can't kill Ryan because he can't use a bathysphere to get to him.

That wasn't Atlas in the submarine dock (he can't get there).

[Ghost]

Thanks for all the answers but 1 more question right now lol
Whos the dude in the beginning where its like in loving memory of this man and splicers are crying looking at it

[Mr Cool]

i still think the concept of disguising as Atlas to you the player is flawed. I mean, Fontaine has mind control over you, so just say "Would you kindly kill Ryan for me" and be done with it. Didnt need to create that whole history about saving his family. It was a nice twist as you didnt see that coming, but as soon as you start thinking about it, you realize it didnt make sense. I mean, the guy had to act like an oscar quality actor because of this charade.

And if the issue was to hide your true nature to Ryan, he just needed to say to you "would you kindly tell nothing to Ryan".

[Scott]

i still think the concept of disguising as Atlas to you the player is flawed. I mean, Fontaine has mind control over you, so just say "Would you kindly kill Ryan for me" and be done with it. Didnt need to create that whole history about saving his family. It was a nice twist as you didnt see that coming, but as soon as you start thinking about it, you realize it didnt make sense. I mean, the guy had to act like an oscar quality actor because of this charade.



Let me see if I can help clarify the story a little bit...

It's clear in the beginning that Jack is helpless and needs Atlas (Fontaine) to explain how life in Rapture works. Like anyone, Jack is unaware that Rapture even exists, let alone what kind of things go on down there. He wouldn't last long on his own, especially if he didn't understand that plasmids, splicing & Adam are key to survival.

In the very beginning when you arrive at Rapture, Fontaine sends someone to pick you up and bring you back to him; instead he gets killed by a spider splicer and now Fontaine needs a way to bring you back to him.

So what would you do? You're underwater in some crazy city, the place is falling apart, you just saw someone get murdered, there are freaky mutant people running around trying to kill you & the only thing you know is a radio with someone on the other end that sounds very friendly and helpful, not to mention, just saved your life; who wouldn't listen to him?

The whole reason that Fontaine is playing as Atlas is because Andrew Ryan can listen in to all his radio transmissions & Fontaine can't let Ryan know that he is still alive. Ryan and Atlas are at war, so if he crafts a story about his family being trapped, he knows Ryan will overhear and sabotage his plan, this gives you more incentive to kill Ryan. The whole story about Atlas's family being trapped was all a trap for Ryan to fall into, which he did.

If Atlas would simply say to you to "Would you kindly kill Andrew Ryan", Andrew would have overheard this and locked himself in his office (which he ended up doing anyway) but this was something Fontaine was trying to avoid.


And if the issue was to hide your true nature to Ryan, he just needed to say to you "would you kindly tell nothing to Ryan".
Ryan knew you were his son before you reached him. He realized that nobody else could use the Vita Chambers or the Bathyspheres unless they were in the same DNA chain as him, this was the first tip off. Not to mention the stripper he "accidentally" got pregnant had an unexplained miscarriage. The pieces of the puzzle started falling into place the more Ryan watched you dominating everything in your path to get to him.

[Toxic]

i still think the concept of disguising as Atlas to you the player is flawed. I mean, Fontaine has mind control over you, so just say "Would you kindly kill Ryan for me" and be done with it. Didnt need to create that whole history about saving his family. It was a nice twist as you didnt see that coming, but as soon as you start thinking about it, you realize it didnt make sense. I mean, the guy had to act like an oscar quality actor because of this charade.

And if the issue was to hide your true nature to Ryan, he just needed to say to you "would you kindly tell nothing to Ryan".

I thought about this a little because I wondered the same thing.

Yes Fontaine has mind control over you, but if you're actively resisting, it'd be hard for Fontaine to get you through alive to kill Ryan. After all he can't see you. And there is a time in the game when Fontaine panics because he can no longer communicate with you. I mean just picture how things would go if you refuse to do anything that he doesn't directly command.

[Scott]

I thought about this a little because I wondered the same thing.



If you're wondering the same thing, read my post above; it explains it all.




Yes Fontaine has mind control over you, but if you're actively resisting, it'd be hard for Fontaine to get you through alive to kill Ryan. After all he can't see you. And there is a time in the game when Fontaine panics because he can no longer communicate with you. I mean just picture how things would go if you refuse to do anything that he doesn't directly command.

But Jack can't refuse, his brain was "hard wired" to do whatever command ordered of him that began with "would you kindly."

The game makes it clear that Jack cannot resist in any way; there is proof of this in the cut scene where you kill Ryan. Jack is grunting in aggression that he cannot stop himself from killing his father.