Do Illegal Immigrants have rights? [Archive]

Toxic

10-28-2007, 09:55 PM

Scott

10-28-2007, 09:59 PM

No they have broken the law so they shouldn't, but it doesn't mean people need to treat them like *****, e.g. making them clean toilets for less than minimum wage etc.. as they want a better life for them selves if I was in there shoes I would probably do the same, glad im not.

But look at it this way: if I break the law, all my rights remain. I don't lose them just because I do something illegal. In fact, I am presumed innocent. Should the same apply to illegal immigrants?

Toxic

10-28-2007, 10:02 PM

But look at it this way: if I break the law, all my rights remain. I don't lose them just because I do something illegal. In fact, I am presumed innocent. Should the same apply to illegal immigrants?

If you break the law and are locked up do you have your right to freedom?

Scott

10-28-2007, 10:03 PM

If you break the law and are locked up do you have your right to freedom?

But saying illegal immigrants broke the law without putting them on trial presupposes their guilt. Is this okay to do in this case?

Toxic

10-28-2007, 10:06 PM

But saying illegal immigrants broke the law without putting them on trial presupposes their guilt. Is this okay to do in this case?

Illegal immigrants, are just that. They have acted illegally so have broken the law so they shouldn't have the right to freedom, either sent back to there home country or they should apply to the authorities in the correct way for a work permit or citizenship. If you mean immigrants in general they have the same rights as you me and anyone who has acted legally.

LiNuX

10-28-2007, 10:14 PM

everybody has what is called "HUMAN RIGHTS" it was established a few hundred years ago in a document called the Declaration of Human rights and it still exists :D

The only right they dont have is the right to vote, the right to run for public office, and the right to work for any government funded jobs

they have the right of freedom, right of free speech, right of press, and etc.. when someone is arrested, the right of freedom is taken away immediately no matter who you are, even if your are a senator lol, that was proven countless number of times

Mr Cool

10-29-2007, 02:35 AM

They have basic human rights.

They just don't have the right to be here though.

Monkeyboy

10-29-2007, 02:47 AM

All foreign nationals have rights.

Scott

10-29-2007, 02:48 AM

All foreign nationals have rights.

They have basic human rights.

They just don't have the right to be here though.

What are these rights?

Mr Cool

10-29-2007, 02:50 AM

What are these rights?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

However, we also have laws that must be obeyed. Pursuit of Happiness can't trample over the law. So they can't stay here.

Monkeyboy

10-29-2007, 02:52 AM

What are these rights?

The Bill of Rights.

Although at deportation hearings (or trials, whatever you call them) the US is not obligated to provide you a lawyer.

LiNuX

10-29-2007, 07:22 AM

lol the bill of rights just directs itself to the United States governement - there is something called the Bill of Human rights that was made in Europe a few hundred years ago and i believe it still exists, people still look at it as a guide

the original question was pretty broad, you should have stated what type of rights lol, cuz if its just rights in general, everyone has at least a few :D

Scott

10-29-2007, 02:54 PM

The Bill of Rights.

Although at deportation hearings (or trials, whatever you call them) the US is not obligated to provide you a lawyer.

That's because those are administrative hearings and not judicial hearings.

But also, should they have the right to bear arms?

LiNuX

10-29-2007, 02:56 PM

That's because those are administrative hearings and not judicial hearings.

But also, should they have the right to bear arms?

with a valid license, yes. But in the united states, u need a social security number along with a passport/green card and other stuff to prove your identity. Getting a passport and SS# for illegal immigrants is impossible lol.

but they do have the right, they just cant get it at the end

Ghost

10-29-2007, 05:51 PM

Yes, they do have rights. Troubling you don't know.

All people on U.S. or UK soil are given rights except for a few rights such as voting and holding a federal job.

Cov3rt

10-29-2007, 06:00 PM

Vary difficult to think of I don't think they should be treated like ***** and taken advantage of like they are. I don't care if they are illegal or not they need to be treated like human beings and not trash because they do things for you (Indirectly)rather you like it or not

Ghost

10-29-2007, 06:04 PM

Illegal immigrants, are just that. They have acted illegally so have broken the law so they shouldn't have the right to freedom, either sent back to there home country or they should apply to the authorities in the correct way for a work permit or citizenship. If you mean immigrants in general they have the same rights as you me and anyone who has acted legally.

So, should everyone in all the prisons throughout the land be stripped of their remaining freedoms?

Toxic

10-29-2007, 06:27 PM

So, should everyone in all the prisons throughout the land be stripped of their remaining freedoms?

They have lost their freedom already, im not saying lock them up in cells 24/7 but if they have acted illegally they don't deserve to be roaming the streets.

MilkshakeNinja

10-30-2007, 09:39 AM

LiNuX

10-30-2007, 09:53 AM

Yeah, they don't have any right to be here...not to be mean or anything
but it's true.

The US is still debating on the amnesty bill which if it's passed America is basically screwed. Tons and tons of illegal immigrants pouring into the US. They wouldn't even have to have body exams or anything, and even allowing criminals past our borders...soo hopefully it won't pass lol.

actually, if the government wanted, they can hunt down every illegal immigrant in the country and deport them - but some come for help, mostly medical help - we are no one to deny someone of their health

MilkshakeNinja

10-30-2007, 11:17 AM

LiNuX

10-30-2007, 11:32 AM

True, they could do that...lol

The only thing that bothers me is the fact that they are taking all of our jobs, don't have to pay taxes, and not taking the time to learn english.

If they want to live here they should just become legal citizans and have to pay taxes and stuff that everyone else has to do.

But, I am not saying that we shouldn't help people who need hospitals and stuff like that.

well actually, they are taking jobs normal people don't want to do and they complain about that lol, believe it or not, immigrants actually made the country (USA) what it is today

some come to escape their poor governemnt and if the US government keeps spending money on crap, we'll have to start doing the same and run to europe lol

MilkshakeNinja

10-30-2007, 11:38 AM

well actually, they are taking jobs normal people don't want to do and they complain about that lol, believe it or not, immigrants actually made the country (USA) what it is today

some come to escape their poor governemnt and if the US government keeps spending money on crap, we'll have to start doing the same and run to europe lol

Haha, yeah possibly if Bush keeps running things the way he is.

If they really wanted to become apart of this country then they should just do whatever it is they do, and become a legal citizen.

Mr Cool

10-30-2007, 01:42 PM

Cov3rt

10-30-2007, 01:52 PM

What are you talking about? What does that have to do with rights?

Human Rights? The way to treat people perhaps? That does not need to be dictated by the government. Everything doesn't have to be written by politicans on what rights they should have. These are humans and they are to be treated like humans.

Mr Cool

10-30-2007, 01:53 PM

Human Rights? The way to treat people perhaps? That does not need to be dictated by the government. Everything doesn't have to be written by politicans on what rights they should have. These are humans and they are to be treated like humans.
So, if someone treats me badly they've violated my rights? WTF?

You're talking about something else entirely. You're talking about human decency.

Cov3rt

10-30-2007, 01:55 PM

So, if someone treats me badly they've violated my rights? WTF?

You're talking about something else entirely. You're talking about human decency.

Yes I am talking about human decency this never had nothing to do with Constitutional rights.

Mr Cool

10-30-2007, 01:56 PM

Yes I am talking about human decency this never had nothing to do with Constitutional rights.

So, what does human decency have to do with rights?

A person doesn't have the right to be treated well.

Cov3rt

10-30-2007, 01:57 PM

So, what does human decency have to do with rights?

A person doesn't have the right to be treated well.

So you are fine with them cleaning toilets for you? Being payed lower than minimum wage and taken advantage of? You must be ok with it because you are not complaining about. They don't belong here so it is ok to treat them like crap.

Mr Cool

10-30-2007, 01:58 PM

So you are fine with them cleaning toilets for you? Being payed lower than minimum wage and taken advantage of? You must be ok with it because you are not complaining about. They don't belong here so it is ok to treat them like crap.

WTF are you talking about? Nobody said it's ok to treat them like crap.

Also I don't want them to clean my toilets or work for lower than minimum wage. I want them to go home.

I swear, your thought process is really puzzling.

IceCold

10-30-2007, 03:00 PM

All people should have rights. People created border crossings. God didn\'t. Too bad in civilized countries that a convicted murderer has more rights than an illegal immigrant.

MilkshakeNinja

10-31-2007, 09:28 AM

This has gone alittle off topic...
They are not legal citizens, and shouldn't have the same rights as us.

That's like having a murderer set free from prison, and letting them run loose to kill again...that's not right they should be locked up for their crime.

Same idea you can't just let an illegal immigrant running around who probably doesn't speak english, take peoples jobs, and not have to pay any taxes...it just doesn't work that way.

Mr Cool

11-02-2007, 12:17 AM

All people should have rights. People created border crossings. God didn\'t. Too bad in civilized countries that a convicted murderer has more rights than an illegal immigrant.

In which civilized countries? And what "rights" are these?

Toxic

11-02-2007, 12:19 AM

This argument is kind of weak, how come people don't talk about UK politics on this forum?

Mr Cool

11-03-2007, 07:19 AM

This argument is kind of weak, how come people don't talk about UK politics on this forum?

Because UK politics, even local politics of the tiniest measure, are simply extensions of American foreign policy.

Har, har, jaykay, jaykay.

Make a thread about UK politics. I'm interested in hearing about what's going on over there these days. I know they're watching the US subprime mortgage lending recoil like hawks, but that would make for a boring thread.

DeadCell

11-03-2007, 09:11 AM

But look at it this way: if I break the law, all my rights remain. I don\'t lose them just because I do something illegal. In fact, I am presumed innocent. Should the same apply to illegal immigrants?

If they are illegal they are illegal, you don\'t need a court of law to decide that they have no citizenship. And as non-citizens they have no coverage by the Bill of Rights.

When you are convicted of a crime by a jury of your peers you waive your rights and become property of the state.

Scott

11-03-2007, 08:16 PM

If they are illegal they are illegal, you don\'t need a court of law to decide that they have no citizenship. And as non-citizens they have no coverage by the Bill of Rights.

When you are convicted of a crime by a jury of your peers you waive your rights and become property of the state.

Could that view of justice set a dangerous precedent -- that people derive their rights from the state?

TeknoVagrant

11-05-2007, 01:58 AM

But look at it this way: if I break the law, all my rights remain. I don't lose them just because I do something illegal. In fact, I am presumed innocent. Should the same apply to illegal immigrants?

If you are a convicted felon you actually DO lose many of your rights. Even after you leave prison

Scott

11-05-2007, 01:59 AM

If you are a convicted felon you actually DO lose many of your rights. Even after you leave prison

Good point. But I meant more like after you commit a crime, before you go to trial. You still have your rights through the trial. But with illegal immigration, they don't get a trial -- they get an administrative hearing. So that's, in a way, presupposing their guilt, not their innocence.

My question is: do people think that's fair or not?

TeknoVagrant

11-05-2007, 02:00 AM

Good point. But I meant more like after you commit a crime, before you go to trial. You still have your rights through the trial. But with illegal immigration, they don't get a trial -- they get an administrative hearing. So that's, in a way, presupposing their guilt, not their innocence.

My question is: do people think that's fair or not?

I don't give a crap if it is fair... they are not citizens... if you do not belong in this country you get the boot... the reason we cannot solve this problem is that corrupt business made sure that the Federal Government underfund border protection and immigration control...

Illegal immigration is little more than subsidized cheap labor. It destroys the hopes of legal immigrants and destroys our own work situation for American citizens... that is what I find unfair an inhumane.

Scott

11-05-2007, 02:08 AM

I don't give a crap if it is fair... they are not citizens... if you do not belong in this country you get the boot... the reason we cannot solve this problem is that corrupt business made sure that the Federal Government underfund border protection and immigration control...

Illegal immigration is little more than subsidized cheap labor. It destroys the hopes of legal immigrants and destroys our own work situation for American citizens... that is what I find unfair an inhumane.
Again, we accuse them of being illegal without giving them a trial. If that's fine to do with immigration, what about other crimes such as murder?

As for the cheap labor argument, it is much more nuanced than you make it. Especially when you considered why their labor is cheaper.